Dr Jarrod Gilbert Sociologist
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My last Farrar

12/8/2014

6 Comments

 
PicturePita Sharples: known gang associate
In politics, as in religion, the true believers will never be convinced they are wrong. But I could not let David Farrar away with the incredible assertions in his last blog post defending the incorrect use of gang figures.

Farrar says, “Dr Gilbert now concedes gangs are responsible for the proportions cited”

I did not. Anybody can read my post for themselves and see that. The only thing I'm conceding is that I shouldn't have called the dishonest Farrar a reasonable bloke - quite clearly he is not. He's ignorant.

Farrar repeats his claim that  “The figures seem credible”

Again I say that Colin Craig thinks the idea that we didn’t land on the moon is credible, but that doesn’t mean it's right. What we want is truth.

Farrar says, “Dr Gilbert… is now trying to argue that there is a difference between gang associates and gang members”.

I’m not trying to argue that at all, I am stating it as a fact. Just as every gang researcher in the world does, and just as the New Zealand Police and the Department of Corrections do. Apparently Farrar knows better.

Farrar says, “Is Dr Gilbert saying the Corrections Department is lying when it says 28% of the prison population are gang members?”

No, I’m not saying Corrections are lying. They are not lying. The Minister has just used the Department’s figures incorrectly, and so has Farrar. As I have previously explained: the Corrections figures include gang associates (via affiliations) and that inflates the ‘gang’ figure by many times. You can see for yourself here. This makes sense, of course. You don’t want to put the brother of a Mongrel Mob member in with a group of Black Power. It doesn’t mean that the brother’s offending has anything whatsoever to do with the gang. It’s about prisoner safety. In this way he becomes a 'gang' number but he’s not part of the gang problem. 

Farrar says, “They [the police] say there are 4,000 gang members. I don’t know if this includes associates in that. I presume Police and Corrections are using the same definition”.

Wrong plain and simple. The police figure is gang members and the Corrections figure is gang members and everybody who knows one. To complicate it further, though, the police will use ‘gangs and associates’ in some crime data. That’s not ideal, in my view, but so long as it is clear and consistent, then that’s okay.

And this is where the problem is. If you use different definitions you get different results. The problem can either look very big or very small. In other words you can be deceptive, which is exactly what I pointed out. This is not a semantic argument; it fundamentally changes things.

If Farrar doesn’t think this is a problem, then I’m sure we wouldn’t hear a peep out of him if the Green Party said dairy farming was responsible for 33% of waterways pollution, but then used sheep, pig and all agricultural famers in the data to prove it. 

Such incorrect data will obviously lead to poor policy because we are not viewing the problem accurately or clearly. New Zealand history is littered with terrible and ineffective gang legislation for this reason.

I don’t have an agenda. It is quite clear that Farrar does and here we see clearly the problem of politics. Both sides won’t concede that they just desperately want to win, and the victim in all of this is the truth. 

In coming days I will publish an extract from PATCHED that discusses this in detail. Farrar won’t read it of course, but I hope anybody curious about understanding things a little more might.


6 Comments
Bernard
12/8/2014 06:16:51 am

Shouldn't Crypts be Crips in the statistics? Since they'd be based on the "Gangs" in the US and could it not be argued that a person in "White Power" is also possibly counted under "Skinhead" or some other form which is believed to come under "White Power" and then again, could it not be argued that if there is no fact checking on it, anyone could make up their place in a "gang". How many youths fall into the category of saying they are in the Bloods or Crips to look "cool" but aren't. If someone is sent in and they have friends in a MC, and family in 2 other 'gangs' how do they fall? For statistical purposes they belong to 3 'gangs' but that isn't possible in the real world.

Plus why focus on the statistics of being "responsible"? So 'Gangs' Make up 25-33.3% of crime, breaking that down to say 10 'Gangs' thats only 2.5-3.33% of each gang has committed the "crime".

Yet we don't talk about the fact that 66.6-75% of crime is committed by Non-Gang Members/Affiliates.

Plus why is it that people decry the youth gangs or gangs themselves for what they do, their 'Patches' are intimidating, etc, but someone who plays for the All Blacks can beat his wife to a pulp, drink drive, or commit any other form of crime and they get discharged because "They are a Hero to kids".

Sure I might feel a little uneasy around Gang Members but I feel the same around sports players and large groups of people; the simple fact I can't overlook myself is that when a gang of young punks wanted to bash me for my camera, members of Highway 61 came over and told them to back off. They didn't know me, they didn't have to help me, I was just some kid on the street, but while other people likely would have stood by and watched, doing nothing, those guys in Highway 61 came over and helped me. They weren't violent, they didn't use any violent language, all they did was tell people who would have harmed me to leave me alone.

Sure its easy to use figures to make people look evil, but why are the good aspects not talked about? I mean we have members of Parliament who have ripped off the public and they didn't have to pay for their crimes. Recent National MP misuses her public expenses card, has to pay back a little, still gets paid something like $120,000 for the months leading up to and 3 months after the election, while not needing to actually work at all, she's just "entitled" to it. Yet that money would pay for a years worth of basic sickness benefit for 3-4 adults. That's what 12,000 pairs of $10 shoes from the warehouse? Enough to buy a home in some parts of the country. Money that could go a long way for our hospitals, or education or just basic necessities of life.

Yet the media need to show to the public that instead of doing "right" for the country, we have to go on silly little crusades against people who likely are just going about their usual day to day business and hanging round with some mates who like to wear a certain uniform.

Can't remember the MP but one the other night was waffling on about how the Mongrel Mob are pushing drugs and prostitution. Well haven't 2 Governments now pushed through drugs that have negative effects on people? And Prostitution is Legal here. Are the police going to crack down on the politicians for voting it in? Nope.

Reply
Mike H link
13/8/2014 09:36:01 am

Don't be ridiculous Jarrod - stop expecting your years of research in this area to get in the way of some serious political posturing. Politicians and their puppets in the media aren't interested in the truth, stop trying to use totally unsuitable facts at this grave time. Election time is time for inducing blind panic, get with the programme. Jeez.

Reply
Paper Planes
13/8/2014 04:46:07 pm

Repudiating the virtues of your world, criminals hopelessly agree to organize a forbidden universe. They agree to live in it. The air there is nauseating: they can breathe it.

Jean Genet

Fuck this corrupt Government and its paid-for henchmen and propagandists.

Black Power are more honestly and beautifully themselves than you will ever be.


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